Saturday, January 2. 2010Cheats, Thieves And Fundamental Orifices.....John Linton ....not the words that immediately spring to my mind when describing Exetel's employees and managers.....but apparently I'm mistaken. I dealt with three emailed complaints yesterday that used those three words and several more along the same lines caused by Exetel increasing the monthly allowance on several of its plans (by as much as 10 gigabytes of peak usage) and reducing the excess usage charges from $1.50 to $0.50....yes....increasing the value of the plans and reducing the cost is obviously the work of an ISP that is describable as "thieving", "cheating", "fundamentally dishonest" and is operated and managed by "total ****holes". The three people I replied to used grossly foul language and one of them extended their peroration of righteous indignation to twelve paragraphs of vituperation. The reason for these expressions of total disgust with Exetel and all of its employees? Our plan changes that despite being advised to the customers on the web site pricing pages and via an email (to those who subscribe to "plan and service" changes) as becoming available from 1st January 2010 had taken the view that the additional allowances and reduced excess charges would be added to their current plans although the changes were only announced in the last few days of December. Clearly our attempts at making it clear that these new benefits were only available from 1st January 2010 were not made clearly enough. So I responded to each of the complainants apologising profusely for Exetel being thieves, crooks, scammers or whatever each individual had described us as in their initial email and, as we had yet to process the bank files for the January bill run (it being a public holiday on Friday), I committed to removing the "overcharges" from their invoice although pointing out that to claim it being an "over charge" was both ridiculous and dishonest. I received two emails in reply demanding that Exetel should do more than apologise for our "chicanery" (nice to see that some of our customers have a dictionary) and one thought we should credit the whole invoice amount as a "gesture of good faith" and the other thought that "at least two month free service" would compensate him for the pain and suffering he had been caused by "Exetel over charging him". Talk about 'taking your breath away'. So I slept on it as I was in no position to make any sort of sensible decision on what sort of reply should be sent to such people. Having had a night's sleep I replied to both their emails earlier this morning and I also sent a further email to the third complainant setting out how I actually viewed firstly their complaints and in the case of the unbelievable two exactly what I thought of their request for "compensation". Doubtless they will find my emails to be inappropriate but I wonder whether they will consider that writing to a perfect stranger and using totally intemperate and completely inappropriate language is 'appropriate'? I very much doubt it if they received such correspondence. Even if I tried really, really hard and removed all logic and basic information from the scenario I couldn't possibly find a way of agreeing that a person of even below average intelligence could decide that he/she had had the terms and conditions of supply of his/her service had been changed without notice. Even if I stretched my imagination to its fullest extent I can't believe that someone who saw such a change wouldn't email or call the supplier to confirm the situation. But that's just me - clearly it is more than possible as at least three people have clearly shown. Personally, I have trouble believing there are people in Australia that stupid. If there are then God knows how they manage to live an independent life. But, again personally, I don't want personally, or to have Exetel personnel, be abused by such people nor do I want to be put in a position of having to deal with such people and, of course, I fully understand that such people shouldn't put themselves in a position where "lying, thieving, cheating scumbag companies like Exetel" should be able to rip them off - they should be protected from such gross abuse as they don't seem to be able to protect themselves from becoming subject to such abuse. Obviously the very first thing that they need to do is to immediately move away from a "scumbag" company like Exetel to one that will not "rip them off at every opportunity". I'll have to give some considerable thought as to how Exetel can help them best resolve this totally unacceptable situation......and there I was...hoping for a pleasant day. I wonder if it is far too late to find a job I am competent to carry out?
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Hi John,
I was advised yesterday that my PAYU1500 plan was changed effective 1 January 2010. I had not requested the change.... I also note that other family members I had arranged to be on that plan also had their plan changed without them requesting it. All have low download requirments..... and some use the "frills" - so the change will result in higher costs to them. Was this change a "mistake" or was it intended? Harry. Comments (2)
Harry,
It was intended - not a mistake. Any cost increase would be absolutely minimal and in most cases would result in a lower cost. Comments (13)
Does this action now mean that all the "frills included" plans for ADSL and ADSL2 have now effectively been terminated?
Regards, Harry. Comments (2)
As far as I know, over 80% of Exetel users are still on the plans that include the SMS/FAX etc components.
Comments (13)
Hi John,
After reading the relevant whirlpool thread and receiving excess usage charges of my own I believe the crux of the matter is that the user facilities displayed additional quota (an extra 10GB on NF23) prior to the commencement of the new month (Excess usage charges were also displayed at 50c per GB). Myself and apparently others interpreted this to mean that Exetel had applied the plan changes early as a gift for customers and as such was available for use until the end of the month. Obviously this was not the case (Thus the excess usage charges). Now to be fair I was aware of the plan changes (I read your blog daily) and I took a gamble that the extra 10GB of quota and lower excess usage charges applied from the date they were applied to the user facilities. Now obviously I was wrong and whilst it would be nice if these were amended (We can dream) I am happy to take it on the chin and as a lesson learnt. For the benefit of those who your customers who don't visit your blog nor view the plan website on a monthly basis they would not have been aware that these plan changes were not applicable until January. The only email correspondence notifying customers of these changes was the monthly newsletter which was received yesterday, obviously this was a little too late for those who had accrued excess usage charges. To avoid any further discrepancies with plan changes in the future would it be possible to have the user facilities display the changes from the date that these are effective? This should remove any further confusion I would think. Happy new year and I hope this year is even more prosperous for you then 2009. Comments (2)
I understand your point but I must disagree with your conclusion.
If, as an example, we had DECREASED the allowance and INCREASED the excess charge I am CERTAIN that anyone seeing that would have immediately telephoned, emailed, forum posted to clarify the issue. In this scenario, with the pricing web pages clearly showing 1/1/10 as the start date I would have thought that if anyone was in doubt they would check? Comments (13)
I suppose that in an ideal and logical world customers would take the initiative and consult with the ISP prior to putting themselves at risk of excess usage charges. However as you can see some Exetel clients are not so logical thus the complaints.
I can see your point and I recall that you have addressed similar themes in past blogs. I personally agree with you however as shown you do have a select number of customers who would take advantage of Exetel's generosity and who will continue to complain when it backfires on them. Likewise they will fight tooth and nail to remain with Exetel if offered the chance to leave. Is my suggestion of something that may be considered for future plan changes? Whilst it won't lessen the tendency of select customers to complain it should at least alleviate the level of confusion felt. Comments (2)
We, as a matter of course, usually delay new plan 'announcements' until after the 1st of any month.
In this instance, partly due to the absence of most personnel and partly due to my desire for 'tidiness' we used the last few days of December to make a series of changes so that we could start the new year without further demands on people who were on leave. My, personal, attitude is that anyone who ignored all of the indications/statements that the changes were not in effect until January 1st must have realised they were wrong and figured that they could wriggle out of the costs by saying what the three people referenced in this article said. It won't happen. Exetel will happily refund the "overcharges" claimed by anyone unscrupulous enough to act so dishonestly - and then ask them to find another provider. Dishonest people should not expect to endlessly get away with their dishonesty and they have defined that either Exetel is dishonest or they are dishonest - either way there is no basis for continuing a commercial relationship. Comments (13)
The issue as I see it is that existing customers don't look at Exetel's website plan price pages - they use their User Facilities.
The simplest way to avoid such complaints in the future is include a new field on the "View Plan Detail" page in the User Facilities titled "Plan Date of Effect" or similar. Being a "belt and braces" person, I would also put a clear note on the "Members Summary" Page in the "Current Month's ADSL Usage" to tell customers to always confirm download allowances etc by checking them against the "View Plan Detail" page which gives the complete and official plan details. Being proactive, I've also put this suggestion through the Suggestion Box Gidget Comment (1)
While I agree many people may have been taking advantage of the situation, it is possible that some innocently went over their December quota, due to their January quota being displayed in the following places:
the XML feed at https://www.exetel.com.au/members/usagemeter_xml.php? the "Current Month's ADSL Usage" metre at https://www.exetel.com.au/members/home.php * in plan detail at https://www.exetel.com.au/members/account_view_plan.php Consider people who use one of the third party desktop metres which rely on the XML feed for data. They may have simply seen data remaining without realising the XML fee was incorrect. Personally, I went just over 1GB over quota and am more than willing to accept the excess usage charge. Comment (1)
Perhaps you're correct....but wouldn't you think it more reasonable for a person who saw a significant change to their plan to confirm,or otherwise, the actuality of it rather than just assuming it was the case?
Comments (13)
Just though you may like this one. Slightly more positive
I have just supplied a new computer to a friend in Ballarat VIC as they were currently using a 486 100Mhz computer with dialup. With their new computer I came to the conclusion that there was no point being on dial up and advised them they would need a new broadband solution. They are currently using TPG dialup and after days of pondering on what they were going to go with (despite my many attempts to convince them to use Exetel) they decided that TPG adsl 1 256k was the way for them to go due to the hassle of new email addresses and such. Being an agent and a long time support of Exetel i keep on thinking to my self over the next few days i know i am missing something here.... I have explainded the benifets and cheaper costs assosiatied with a exeHSPA connection which would suit them perfectly but still no go... Then it struck me how stupid!!! These people are wildlife lovers and despite having very little money them selves they constantly donating to wild life programs. So i quickly jumped back on the phone and laid down the facts and pointed them to the fauna pages on the exetel website. 10 Minutes later i recieve a call saying something along the line of "Why didn't you mention this to us before?" Sign us up.. So im heading down to Ballarat tomorrow to setup the new computer and connection. Being a donator my self i cant believe it slipped my mind but there you go. Knowing the company they were going to use supported endangered wildlife programs sold the connection in 10 mins when i spent 2 days with them trying otherwise Keep up the great work. Regards, Ben H v043 Comment (1)
Regardless of whether the plan implementation was clear enough stated, I think for the 'health & safety' of these distressed individuals, they should be given notice that a service will no longer be provided to them from Exetel. They have been absolutely clear that Exetel is not suitable for them as a service provider.
There is no reason for these sorts of abusive emails. A person’s personal situation and upbringing (or lack thereof) should be no excuse. If I receive abusive correspondence (email, forum reply, telephone call etc) I find it offensive and have to be careful that I am not negatively affected by said abuse. Exetel staff members including the CEO quite possibly can be affected in a similar way. 'Health & safety' works both ways. Give them their deserved notice! Paul Comment (1)
I am constantly surprised at the foul language and totally abusive attitudes of so many people who write complaint letters.
I dislike being described in those terms personally and I am not going to allow the people that Exetel employ to be subjected to such unacceptable behaviour. Irrespective of the actual circumstances there is never any 'excuse' for using the language and abuse so many 'complainers' couch their written and verbal statements in. The only result of such communications is that Exetel gets rid of the abuser as soon as legally possible. Comments (13)
For a person who may barely scrape 1/324ths of a Megabit' of downloads usage per month(?) it might be hard to grasp/translate how there exist a demand for quota so strong there appear these odd ('boundary-testing')cases who download so heavily into the last remaining hours of a YEAR like addicts - on NY's Eve to incurring those 'unfair' invoices they have claimed (I don't share their sentiment/fanciful way of thinking) when you'd expect them to be offline/ celebrating etc. of course it probably doesn't help having (from reasonable assumption) the Cat's Paw/'hijacker' of ISPyoucanguess attempting to agitate, escalate, run interference from the website he believes delivers his objective...
Yes the "1/1/10" signposting is IMO unmistakable on the publicly accessible website, also View Plan Detail is here for further clues https://www.exetel.com.au/members/account_view_plan.php Further props to Exetel for the plan Upgrades, 50cents/gb and excellent accountability with regard to ADSL/Wireless Usage Notifications set active via https://www.exetel.com.au/members/information_from_email.php - which I am yet to measure its efficacy but expect it would advise the thresholds 'tidily'. ps. The assistance received in clarification to (my) small overage in April '09 And particularly the Exetel usage meter was to Be aware that the meter is only for reference."(Jason) - so it appears preferable one should refer to either the "detailed summary" i.e. which contains the daily usages And totals or more finally, the invoices themselves as they are emailed or in facilities contained under Billing Details. Comment (1)
To tell you my thoughts I also thought the new limits were for December also. Fortunately for me I never came close to using up my original limits so no extra charges for me. However there is clearly an interpretation you can make from the supplied usage meter by Exetel if it shows an increase in usage limits then you can assume that would be correct at time of publication. Food for thought maybe. I do appreciate the generosity of Exetel passing on bandwidth cost savings to their customers.
Comment (1)
From what I have read here and on the other forums, I think the moral is don't try to be efficient by clearing your desk before the end of the month...
Stick to making announcements only when they are current. Then there is no risk of anyone misinterpreting what has been said or done. Comments (2)
You could be right.
Personally, I don't think there is ever any excuse for writing in the way that the three people I referenced did. Comments (13)
Agreed, but unfortunately it comes from email still being seen as an informal form of communication for people to vent their spleen with their social filter turned off. It also highlights the poor level of literacy taught in our schools which limits the vocabulary people seem to have available to express their feelings.
On another train of thought you discussed earlier this week about ASDL not being a growth area. This may be true for overall ADSL usage, but not for potential growth at Exetel. There are still many people who cannot move to Exetel ADSL2 due to lack of provisioning (like my own exchange HAMS), if you could find a DSLAM provider to fill the gaps you would have no trouble encouraging more users to join Exetel. Comments (2)
These people must live at Mos Eisley.
Obi Wan Kenobi: "Mos Eisley spaceport - You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." Comment (1)
I think also there is no excuse for people to be so rude. I think you can express your anger at a situation civily with a carefully scripted email, perhaps these people don't posess such skills.
We too are in this boat. We are in one of the highest growth areas in Australia (WDGA) and can't get ADSL2 unless it is through Telstra. I'd swap over to Exetel ADSL2 in a flash if we could get it. Comment (1)
I have just been caught out with the plan changes too. Not happy about it, but it seems that it was my mistake so I will wear it. What i am not happy about is the condescending email I received when querying the excess charge, to be inferred that I am stupid and that if I want a credit then exetel will cancel my account. I am still stunned that any company would talk to their customers like that.
Comment (1)
I am not sure what could be condescending about the email sent nor how it could be seen to imply that you are stupid (careless perhaps but stupid no).
I also don't understand how you could be "stunned" by any part of the email - it seems to be direct, easy to understand and provides you with what you requested. Perhaps, should you wish to do so, you could point out which parts of the email caused you concern: "Dear ………, We are disappointed that our attempts to give you higher down load allowances and lower excess charges have caused you to exceed your December allowances despite what we thought were clear indications that the new benefits did not come in to effect until 1st January 2010. We apologise for the misunderstanding that occurred in your situation but we genuinely believe that no more efforts should have been made on our part to make the start date clearer. We also believe that any reasonable person who was in any doubt about the start date would have telephoned, emailed or posted on the Exetel forum to check on their understanding – we are quite certain if you believed we had reduced the allowance or increased the excess charge you would have certainly done that. However, if you really believe that we have deliberately or even inadvertently, mislead you, which we believe is a far stretch of anything we have done, then please do the following: 1) advise us by email to this return address the amount you believe we have over charged you 2) we will issue that amount to you as a direct deposit to your nominated bank account/credit card 3) if your initial service period has expired we will send you an email asking you to move to another provider of your choice before 31/1/10 4) If you are within the initial contract period we will issue you a termination of service supply once your initial service period has expired." Comments (13)
There seems to be a weird juxtaposition between Exetels attitudes towards customers; on one hand they want to provide them with cheap/value services while being very honest in making business decisions, and then there is a side to them that wants to make all their customers too scared to complain by threatening them with termination of services over a few bucks being redunded.
"I am not sure what could be condescending about the email sent nor how it could be seen to imply that you are stupid (careless perhaps but stupid no)." Your response apologised for the occurrence (implying you are taking responsibility) but your proposed solution to that (termination of services) is something that I don't think anyone would appreciate as compensation by your action that caused the "misunderstanding". "We also believe that any reasonable person who was in any doubt about the start date would have telephoned, emailed or posted on the Exetel forum to check on their understanding" And I also believe that taking up support time is something that you frown upon, which also stimulates the cessation of contract. So, for customers to learn from you and know how to be the best customers for Exetel, they have to dodge these contradicting obstacles from Exetel. ie. one day they say support is expensive and customers should refrain from using it too much and during situations where solutions can be found in other places (internet etc), and another day they will say "reasonable" customers SHOULD indeed use support just to "check their understanding" for what I would personally label a frivolous issue. On another note, I would be very interested to hear from any "reasonable people" that called up support and received a prompt reply from the potential Sri Lankan employees. This is because I doubt that they would have been passed a memo with this latest update. I believe this because I have experienced some confusion by support (on my only ever support ticket) in which I had to spend many paragraphs convincing support that my connection was in fact shaped, and only after escalating the issue (and a week later) did I learn that it was due to a recent plan change by Exetel, and something that low-level support were unaware of at the time (as I suspect they would be in this case). Comments (3)
I don't think you have actually made your points any clearer other than to add some unsubstantiated suppositions that as far as I know, are as incorrect as your original points.
If it is, as you say, "a trivial few bucks" I wonder why you raised the issue in the first place? Comments (13)
Sorry but this is my first reply to your blog and I believe you are confusing me with the original people who commented.
I personally have not been involved with this issue. I was just curious for a reply to the points I brought up. Comments (3)
I don't understand your points if in fact there were any.
You appear to reference appear to be wild hearsay plus your own suppositions but as they have no point of contact with my understanding of how we run Exetel I can't relate to what you say. Again, this is a blog not a person to person communication. Comments (13)
- first point was; does Exetel have differing views on how to treat customers? Such as nicely offering them cheap services but also disrespecting some by terminating their services because of a small refund (for an issue in which you apologised for).
- second point was; you are now encouraging people to contact support over small issues (I have come to the conclusion you encourage it because you said "reasonable people" would have contacted support) even though in previous circumstances you discourage people contacting support because it costs money (leading to an evaluation of whether customer is profitable or not, and terminate their services if not). - my third point brought up that you expected "reasonable people" to call up support to clarify whether the extra quota started during december, but would the call center employees etc. been updated on this situation? Would they have any idea what the customer suddenly brought up presence of extra quota in their members facilities due to a recent implementation by higher management? I'm pretty confident about what I have conveyed so far, so would you care to enlighten me as to what you thought was "wild hearsay"? Comments (3)
1) Exetel has been in business for six years with the sole objective of providing the fastest possible and most reliable services at the lowest possible prices without any profit objective for the shareholders. Those objectives have never changed. There is no question of respect or disrespect - it is simply a service provided at the lowest possible price.
2) "I" am neither encouraging or discouraging any user from contacting "support" at any time. Don't put words in my or any other Exetel person's mouth - it is a cheap and juvenile method of discourse. 3) Exetel has excellent, by any standards, inter personnel communications. Please do not continue to use this blog as a personal discussion forum. Comments (13)
I saw the increased allowance - initially 35Gb and later 30Gb - but did not see the proviso that it started from Jan 1.
Nevertheless it seemed perfectly obvious to me that the new allowance did start from Jan 1. So it was only by accident that I exceeded the previous allowance by 19Mb. Such is life. Perhaps some users take faster than they think Cheers Comment (1)
Dear Exetel,
As it was first month with your company and I didnt receive an email with the change to my download limit. I just took it for granted that I was allowed to download 30000mb when I loged in to check my usage at the end of december. I guess with an iq of 148, every qualification that Sun offer and the annual salary of all your Sri Lankan employee's combined just isn't enough for the hope of an independent life. The email you sent disguisted me to my core. Maybe in time you will discover how clever it is to send disconnection threats to telstra engineers over $6. Comment (1)
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