Tuesday, December 18. 2007Am I Being A Disloyal 'Australian'?John Linton Exetel has almost totally pursued a policy of employing computer science/MIS graduates as its support desk personnel and then allowing them to progressively move towards their desired career objectives in relatively short periods of time via increasing responsibilities in data base programming, systems administration, network engineering or one of the many technical projects and implementations we are continually involved in and replacing them with a new graduate (who invariably has the same aspirations). Because of Exetel's month on month growth it's been possible to accommodate the career development needs of almost all of the people we've employed over the past four years - but not all - and we have lost some people because we couldn't make suitable career development positions available to them quickly enough. That is a great pity and it's becoming more obvious that, if we keep employing new graduates in Australia on the same basis we will always have to contend with this issue. While engineering graduates with good transcripts and a 'heavy personal involvement' in ADSL/routers/PCs/etc make very fast learners and are 'experts' as opposed to 'script jockeys' in terms of most help desk personnel their desire to move on to other responsibilities after 6 - 12 months makes for an unwelcome continual learning curve in managing an adequate support function. Almost two years ago we hired two Sri Lankan nationals to work for Exetel based in their homes in Colombo. we did this partly because of the time difference between Australia and Sri Lanka (5 hours) which allowed us to extend our 'support hours' and partly because the same calibre of person (in terms of degree/transcript) welcomed the opportunity of a career working in the communications industry and was, we understood, prepared to be more patient than 'Australian' graduates in the speed at which their career developed. To hire people in another country is not an easy task and we probably took longer in doing it than we should have - in the event it was almost a year before we actually made the two job offers having gone down a few 'blind alleys' during that time and receiving a lot of, what proved to be, very bad advice. We brought the two selected personnel to Australia for a month for familiarisation with our systems and the requirements of the positions and they then returned to Sri Lanka and began the process of becoming adept and confident in handling the tasks assigned to them which gradually increased in complexity as time passed. We purchased computers and ADSL connections for them in Colombo and they had the same access to all of Exetel's data base systems as every other employee - including all of the help desk tickets. Twice in the past two years the Support manager has gone to Sri Lanka to sit with each of them to familiarise them with ever more demanding aspects of supporting Exetel's customers and multi-daily telephone and email and 'sms' contact is a standard part of the operation. Some 12 months ago we sent Mitel handsets to each of the Sri Lankan engineers which operated as 'office extensions' to the Mitel VoIP PBX we have in North Sydney and allowing them to become part of various support queues taking customer calls 'live' instead of only dealing with customers and carriers via email. Both of the Sri Lankan engineers will return to Australia in early January 2008 for familiarisation with the most advanced processes and procedures we have implemented and we will hire a third Colombo based (work from home) engineer in the next month or so. Annette and I will also visit Colombo in February to meet with the Australian High Commission and various commercial entities to better understand what is involved in setting up additional facilities in Colombo - and to determine whether or not that is in fact practical. At the Exetel Christmas party I advised our Australian personnel that we were going to change the ways we operated in terms of entry level hiring in to Exetel by only hiring new support engineers in Sri Lanka and possibly establishing an office in Colombo to ensure that all of our current Australian staff could continue to progress from customer support to other functions within Exetel within their desired, and reasonable time frames. I've been questioned over the past two years, and several times since last Friday's "announcement", about my "loyalty to Australia" in "moving jobs that should be offered to Australians overseas." There is no simple answer to such questions but my rationale is simple: 1) Exetel, and more importantly, Exetel's customers need support personnel who are prepared to spend more time in providing support (and therefore becoming better able to do that) than most young Australian engineers are happy to spend - and no - I don't believe hiring less qualified and intelligent personnel is a sensible approach to solving that problem. 2) Exetel can ameliorate the same desires of too rapid career progression in Sri Lanka by paying something like three times more than an engineer would earn in more senior positions in that country as a legitimate 'quid pro quo' for doing customer support for a year to eighteen months longer than a young Australian engineer is happy to spend. 3) By paying more and by providing the opportunity of working from home (with full facilities paid by Exetel) we make a sensible contribution to another country's economy that directly benefits both that country and Australia and directly benefits Exetel's customers by providing much higher skilled support personnel with much more knowledge than we can do any other way. 4) By keeping highly intelligent and highly skilled people in customer support longer we increase the level of customer satisfaction we provide to end users and we do that at a lower cost which also directly benefits the end customer because it contributes to allowing Exetel to provide services at a lower operational cost. To date, and it's still very early in the implementation of this program, there is every indication that this approach to directly employing personnel in other countries (as opposed to using some sort of 'managed service' in another country) will benefit everyone concerned. So, as an 'immigrant Australian' I don't feel at all 'disloyal to Australia' and as a father of five children I see no problem in an Australian company employing people in other countries if that provides benefits to everyone concerned. Trackbacks
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Personally, I can't see why you couldn't find someone like myself instead of graduates...
An IT Helpdesk person (age 30ish) (been with the same company 8+ years) who considers family first (considers work a job, not a career). Happy to work 9-5ish hours with a bit of flexibity on each end if required. I work hard, but have no grand aspirations of becoming CEO or somesuch, happy to stay where I am in the position I'm in(as you can see by the 8+ years)... as long as the paycheck comes in on time and the work environment is happy not hostile I'm happy. (Co-workers that is, not clients - although I aim to make them happy/satisfied too). Having said that though... I see no issues with what you're doing above either. Lucky Sri Lankans! Comments (2)
Thomas, as you may know, Exetel advertise all positions available at Exetel whenever they become available on the forum and often by email to all customers.
Have you ever applied? With your experience perhaps you've never seen that as a viable option for you. If you're ever interested in working at Exetel all you need do is send us a resume with a remuneration you would be happy to work for. Comment (1)
G'day John
I too have kept half an eye on your employment letters, but they seem to require living near Exetel in Sydney. I suspect if you were offering employment for a service that was provided electronically, you'd find more people who are less 'career-driven' since they wouldn't be trying to live with Sydney's high accommodation costs, etc. Of course, in that instance you'd probably need to monitor said employees to ensure they were actually working, and working properly! Cheers, Mike. Comment (1)
Lol, I wasn't expecting a headhunt / job proposal. I was just commenting that there are people out there that you may not have considered but could be almost spot-on what you're looking for.
No I haven't applied to the Exetel job emails, you've always wanted a Degree in computer related subjects or TAFE equivalent to a computer related degree... I don't have either. I've just worked my way into IT from the bottom up. Started working life in Sales/Customer service importing and distributing industrial chemicals and got noticed as knowing how to fix pc issues and got moved into IT. 13 years later, I still haven't got any real qualifications in IT except an ITIL certificate but I do know more than most uni graduates that start here... Scary it is! Anyway, I'll start looking elsewhere in the next year and a bit. Hanging in here for 10 years long service leave first I think. The wife wants another Europe holiday Comments (2)
I don't think its disloyal. If folks in Australia are "above" performing said duties for the money you're offering then by all means the jobs should go overseas.
I work in IT (in Australia), 7 years experience. My belief is that if someone overseas can do my job as well as (or better than) I can, then they deserve to take my job. Especially if they are willing to do it for less compensation. Its a good reminder for folks in developed countries that the relatively good life they lead shouldn't be taken for granted. The only caveat I'd put on this is that its not good for sudden shifts to happen as it would cause a lot of social issues. In practice I don't see this as a huge problem - outsourcing of roles to overseas has been on the cards for years so its not exactly a shock to anyone. Comments (3)
Goosmurf, I don't care how good you are, there is almost always someone better and cheaper overseas. Alternatively someone will always be cheaper and good enough.
While I understand why Exetel have hired engineers overseas (as may other companies do). I do think it is disloyal to Australia. We pay you an Australian rate for your Australian supplied service, you supply that service, increasingly, using non Australian rates of pay. Goosmurf’s argument is that Engineers here need to be always better and cheaper then anyone overseas. But how do you get good here if you have to compete with people already trained overseas? They are cheaper and better after all. Taken to extremes, training anyone here is not cost effective for any company. Should it apply to manual labour too? Should the lady who makes my sandwiches be worried that imported workers can do her job better and cheaper? What is the real difference here? None. Why don’t we all import some uneducated people from India to be our servants and send them back after a year and get someone else? $2 an hour should be more then three times what they can earn at home. We are helping them aren’t we? Sure we are, that’s the reason we would do it. I have heard many stories about how outsourcing was sometimes done in the USA. People only paid redundancy if they trained the people who replaced them. Dell service for example is famous for going downhill after outsourcing support to India. Most of their help desk people now seem to be only able to follow a strict script. This may not be the case for Exetel but it is a slippery slope Comments (2)
Sam, my argument is that if you expect to keep your job in Australia, presumably at a higher rate of pay than someone overseas, then you should expect to offer something of value beyond what your overseas competitor can offer.
Let me ask you - how much would you be prepared to pay for your computer, or your TV, MP3 player, if it weren't produced overseas? Do you think about who's producing them, and under what conditions? Or do you happily soak up the reality that you can buy a lot electronics for very little money because there are large factories in China churning out stuff faster and cheaper than ever before? Comments (3)
There is a serious consideration as to the cost of living in the country that you live. Perhaps the cost of living in Sri Lanka allows them to work for considerably less that what is required just to survive in Australia.
If we lose all jobs that can be done overseas, then what jobs might exist for us and our children in the future? I know, "would you like fries with that..." Comment (1)
Andrew - there lies the basis of this debate. Is the cost of living in countries like Sri Lanka, India & China lower because "it just is", or is it because there exists "cheap" labour simply because people are desperate to earn a very basic living?
Is there a fundamental reason for folks in those countries to live poorly compared to folks in developed countries? Effectively this particular argument against overseas outsourcing boils down to "I deserve to live a better standard of life than folks overseas simply because I was luckier to be born in a better place". BTW I'm not at all dismissing the social negatives of a sudden shift of jobs offshore, but debating the viewpoint that it shouldn't happen at all. Comments (3)
|||Sam, my argument is that if you expect to keep your job in Australia, presumably at a higher rate of pay than someone overseas, then you should expect to offer something of value beyond what your overseas competitor can offer.|||
Your argument falls down when you apply it to everyone in my opinion. Australia is wealthier then Sri Lanka, for example, for many reasons. Luck being one the important ones but there is also our culture, work ethic and respect for law and order. It is no accident that most of the British colonies populated by Britons are prosperous. The British/Western system works as is used as the best model by everyone now. Your argument is that every single person in Australia has to be better then the equivalent Ski Lankan or they should expect to lose their job. My argument is that Australia as a whole has to be better, which we are. There have to be rewards for being wealthy otherwise we are doing it for no reason. So there is nothing wrong in my opinion in having higher pay, less hours and better conditions as long as the system works and Australia can afford it. The system does work, we can afford it. So why work like a dog? PS Australia is making so much money now we don’t know were to spend it without sending the economy into a spin. So why work like a dog? Comments (2)
How dare you call yourself Australian hiring Sri Lankans because it saves you a few dollars, Disgusting.
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The people "it saves a few dollars" are Exetel's customers.
The choice is between hiring a competent engineer in Sri Lanka who will value the job (because it pays so well and because there is an ongoing career path development) and who will stay in it for two plus years and become truly skilled in it or hiring a less qualified "Australian" who would require to be paid three times as much and not want to stay in the job past six months therefore never acquiring truly in depth skills and knowledge required in the position. Not exactly a difficult decision to make. Comment (1)
I dont like the idea of out sourcing jobs overseas but if the support is the same (or better) and it cost less then what the hell, however as a Australian I would rather pay a few extra $$$$ to support a locally paid person than someone overseas.
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i feel for John and the moral dilemma he's had to confront, but at the end of the day we live in a global economy, we buy material goods from china, india, etc. all the time, does that mean we're "disloyal" Aussies? Instead of buying material goods, John has bought a "service" from Sri Lanka.
I work in IT too and I also understand that loyal is hard to find in this business especially when money talks, I'm facing a better job offer and career path, but I also want to stay loyal to my current employer, except they cant offer me what I want... so until employers can find a way to get local high quality people to work for third world wages, we'll just have to outsource. it's the future baby ;-D Comment (1)
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