Sunday, February 1. 2009To IP, Or Not To IP.....John Linton ...that is the very real question. In the not too distant future the combined caching engines that Exetel has put in place over the past three years will deliver over 1 gbps of customer data in peak times. This is mainly from the Sydney located Akamai 'cluster' and the Sydney PIPE interconnect (which isn't true caching but for the purpose of calculating data costs it is treated by us in the same way). This doesn't include the up to 800 mbps delivered from the PeerApp P2P caching 'cluster' which we 'cripple' in peak times and only allow full access after midnight. We have never used the PeerAPP for caching non-P2P data but it could be used for that very easily. Our view of caching has changed over time but it remains a complication that we have avoided over the past 2 years as we have moved the network from Sydney centricity for absolutely everything to a more dispersed 'architecture' - firstly activating additional PoPs in all mainland capitals and then progressively adding more 'local' interconnects and data paths. Caching engines, either from PeerApp or one of several dozen other caching solution providers, continue to fall in price and, who knows, in the economic conditions that are beginning to be seen around the globe those trends are more likely to steepen than reverse over the coming months. As we near our 'major' anniversaries for our IP bandwidth contracts we need to make a decision on whether we will continue the policy of buying enough 'pure' IP bandwidth for our peak time (non-P2P) usage or take the cheaper options available from various caching concepts and hardware. A lot depends on the $A - $US exchange rate/forward cover buying by the IP bandwidth providers as that will affect their own SX and Japan cable buy prices. The dire predictions of a sub 50 cent $A are not encouraging but, personally, I'm hopeful that won't happen (maybe that's just wishful thinking). We currently have, at peak times 1.9 gbps of 'pure' IP with Verizon and 600 mbps with Optus with up to another 1.2 gb plus being delivered from Akamai, PeerApp and PIPE and WAIX peering. This is almost double the traffic we were delivering at this time last year - largely thanks to the increases from the caching/peering boxes/connections. However we have increased the 'pure' IP quite substantially over the last 12 months as well - partly to cater for the growth in the overall business and partly because of the lesser efficiencies of operating a 'distributed' network. Our buy price for 'pure' IP isn't particularly good because even at over 2.4 gbps we aren't a "major" buyer of IP bandwidth and I suppose it also means we aren't the best price negotiators in the Australian communications business. As times get even tougher financially in Australia it is going to be difficult to continue to deliver the best value communications services at the IP prices we are paying today as well as cope with the ongoing increasing usage per customer that ADSL2 demands. We will either need to get much better pricing for 'pure' IP or use more caching in Sydney and deploy caching 'solutions' in the 'distributed' PoPs. The capex for the distributed caching solutions hasn't been worked out in any detail and, because we will maintain our "no leasing" policy throughout 2009, may prove a barrier to full implementation - however I'm almost certain that we can convince our current caching suppliers to 'accommodate' our cash flow needs to overcome that if it turns out to be necessary. The appeal (financially) of caching is obvious - it can dramatically reduce IP costs and can also dramatically increase delivery speeds - particularly in a distributed network. The downside is that it can also produce some unhappy experiences if everything isn't continuously managed very carefully. We have begun to get some 'indicative' IP prices for post 1/7/09 and they are 'hopeful' at this stage but if I had to make a decision today I think I'd move more rapidly on putting caching in to the distributed PoPs as the costs, even at the pricing being tentatively suggested, isn't commercially sensible for us to commit to with our current growth plans. It's a pity that the PIPE delivery dates remain so uncertain as it seems, at least to me from the little I know, that transit from PIPE is way more than a year away which is of no use to us. We will run some trials over the next two or three months to see what actually can be achieved and if it proves positive then we will probably freeze our current 'pure' IP expenditures at something below the current levels and use caching to handle the growth in customer traffic demand. It will be a challenging, (God, I must stop using that pathetic word) but very interesting, engineering evaluation. Trackbacks
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If one of the caching options you're looking at is the PeerApp gear's HTTP caching ability, then I suspect turning it on will bring much more in the way of benefits instead of problems.
Looking at the specs of the device, it preserves all requester information, leaving the cache itself "out of view" of the server/peers involved. From my experience, that ability would eliminate any cache-related problems for web access assuming that the cache policy on the device is decent and the gear is up to it. I'm sure Exetel will, as always, manage it in an open and efficient manner. All we spectators are looking forward to the outcome - good luck in the battles with Verizon and Optus! Comments (2)
We have a fairly heavily configured cache with the current vesion of the PeerApp we are using and if it becomes necessary we can double or treble the disk storage.
Our issue wil be to replicate the current caching in the smaller (by customer base) States at an economical cost. In terms of "battles" with suppliers - we never take that approach to negotiation. Being an 'Anglo/Saxon/Celt of a certain age and educational and cultural upbringing I have an absolute horror (bordering on physical sickness) of the 'back street bazaar haggling' approach to business pricing taken by the Asian/Sub Continent/ME background people in this business. Our approach to date has been "submit the price you are happy to sell to us at and if we are happy with it we'll buy". Few people, even in Australian business unerstand this method of determining whether or not we will actually do busines with them and it has resulted in some surprised and disappointed suppliers/would be suppliers who when advised that we have decided to buy from someone else have said words to the effect "but we could have been "flexible" and that was just our opening price". I really find that cr** offensive. I expect to get the right price without having to ask twice. If a supplier is so childish as to have a different view of business then that's fine with me - I just can't stand that stupid method of dealing with a strightforward and very simple business transaction. So, no "battles" - just a comparison between IP from 3 or 4 suppliers for the next 12 months and the cost of caching engines. Comments (6)
I share your view on how business should be done. I personally would like to have that experience on a more regular basis.
Doing business in the fashion you've described shows great integrity. Comments (2)
Not enough people do business in that manner I think, personally I don't like all the haggling, just tell me the real price!
If an IP supplier were seriously looking to supply you they should be looking at the alternatives, really if they can't deliver a price that can compete with alternatives like caching then the numbers just won't work in their favor, I guess that will depend on whether they do their homework or not, in the current economic climate you would hope they would be smart enough to know what they are up against, it's a buyers market right now Comment (1)
Your approach seems reminiscent of a dutch auction - where the seller first offers the price they would like, then steadily decreases it until someone buys or they reach the minimum they will accept at which point it is passed-in.
I believe it is much more efficient than more traditional auctions and much more pleasant. I wonder if E-bay would ever offer Dutch Auctions .. or do we need D-bay ?? Comment (1)
It works if you don't care whether you buy or not or sell or not.
I find that as I'm always reasonable I always get what I want - hence the criticism that if I 'bargained' I'd do better. Comments (6)
If they know "your" rules....
and you have the cheque book..... ..they'll usually play by them. H. ..gotta go... cyclone coming!!! Comment (1)
-- " Our approach to date has been "submit the price you are happy to sell to us at and if we are happy with it we'll buy".
John that is so old school -- if you want something in this world you have got to be prepared to fight for it -- if you dont, someone else will always just pip you out at the post. John - your not only fighting for yourself but also 100,000 customers -- sorry the Marquis of Queensbury rules were thrown out in the last century -- the 21st century dictates the strong will win and the agile have the advantage. You must adapt to the new world - there are only winners and losers -- if Exetel is missing out on achieving savings because you choose not to negotiate thats wrong. cheers bill. Comments (3)
We are all the sums of our backgrounds and our experiences - nothing can be changed about that.
Comments (6)
--"We are all the sums of our backgrounds and our experiences".--
I have read your reply a few times now and your response seems to imply an air of arrogance. My background -- yes a valid point, I attended Barker College in Hornsby a very fine school. After working for many years in managerial positions , I was presented with a decision far above anything I had ever considered before -- my Wife was diagnosed with MS and needed care on a full time basis. I now am just a Full time Carer for my Wife and have found unless you fight for every single thing when dealing with her health issues, and the Government Bureaucracy - that you just don’t get anywhere. Yes, I now believe you must fight -- if you had asked me 30 years ago - I may have choose the path of least resistance such as your choosing. Comments (3)
There can be no arrogance in describing every different person as the sum of their previous experiences filtered via their backgrounds and other influences -that is just a generaisation of what a person is.
Each person is different in how they develop their different ways of dealing with various situations - that doesn't make one way right and another wrong - it just makes different people different. My ways of building a small business are simply what I choose based on what I've learned. At my advanced age my ways of dealing with simple business transactions are not going to vary very much from what they have developed to be. There is no arrogance in the methods I use - simply long experience of what works best for me in carrying out the responsibilities with which I have been 'charged' over the decades. Comments (6)
John ,
I definitely agree, the creation and management of Exetel have certainly been conducted at the highest level and the proof is that Exetel is still here and growing quickly 5 years later. May I ask, when you moved from Perth to Sydney and purchased your home did you hand the seller a piece of paper that stated you would only be prepared to pay $XXX amount or did you infact negotiate a price with the seller until a true meeting of minds regarding the purchase price was achieved. What is it you don’t like about negotiating a price - it just seems part of the world today. cheers bill Comments (3)
I have never lived in Perth.
When I bought the house I now live in I simply said I would pay a price (all I had and could borrow) and left it at that. The RE agent kept coming back with higher requests until the vendor (whom I knew to be under some financial pressure) accepted that price after initally wanting much more. I have always bought and sold real estate that way and I always buy cars the same way - nominate a price I'm prepared to pay and never move from it. Similarly in business I decide what price the business can afford and don't buy if that price isn't offered. In business I don't state the price I'm prepared to pay because it isn't appropriate. Basically the rule of buying is: "only buy when the other party has to, not wants to, sell" The rule of selling is: 'only sell at the price you want. Third 'rule' of all commercial transactions is if you get the price you originally stated don't concern yourself about whether or not you could have done better. This process makes for a happy transaction for both parties and saves a lot of time. People who think that everything's a negotiation are wasting their own and everyone else's time (they also think they're smarter than they actually are). Comments (6)
I'd be happy with caching as long as there's a way to "reset" a failed download etc. I remember back 10 years ago in the dial-up days continually retrying to download a cached file that was corrupted / incomplete etc. It was horrid. Hopefully with modernisation / progression those problems and one's like it are past?
Comment (1)
If you ever use P2P most of those downloads are cached these days - for NSW users.
HTTP caching itself is a far cry from the original Squid implementations of a decade ago but the contributing factor using dial up was the packet loss inherent in ten years ago dial up. Subject to thorough testing - I have currently no doubts that HTTP caching using PeerApp will be 'seamless'. Comments (6)
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