Tuesday, December 16. 2008"Local" Call Centres Are Better Than Overseas Call Centres?John Linton A colleague sent me this last night: http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=6458598 which I found interesting. It is of course not much an article and is trivially referenced and badly written so as a set of facts it's fairly useless but it's two alleged main points are interesting: 1) Dell thinks it's possible to charge $US12.95 PER MONTH for a customer to call a US located call centre rather than their call centres in India. Apart from the excessive cost Dell puts on a 'local' call answering service I would probably agree that Dell's call centres in India are a disaster based on our family's two experiences of calling them for service on a Dell laptop. However that had nothing to do with the quality of the people or their command of English. It related to the fact that the actual procedures for handling the call were so inadequate it took the best part of a day being on hold while being transferred between people who simply couldn't answer a non-technical question (the question was when would a promised replacement lap top arrive as the on line advised shipping arrival date had passed) and the quality of the telephone VoIP service made it impossible to actually hear what was being said (again nothing to do with the accent or command of English). 2) "We really believe that our customer satisfaction saves us more money in the long term than off shoring," said Jitterbug CEO David Inns. It's not clear that this small company: ever had overseas call centres to be able to make a statement like that but, reading their web site, you see that their target market is the archly conservative 'US senior citizen' demographic which is notoriously xenophobic. So the article itself is not of any real use but the views it highlights are relevant to us as we have decided that all of our back end processes (including technical support) will be provided from Sri Lanka - not as an outsourced call centre but as a company owned and managed by the same people who own and manage Exetel in Australia. We did look, briefly, at 'out sourcing' but based on our personal Dell experience and many other aspects of that scenario never seriously considered it. Personally, I think that it's very difficult to outsource key aspects of any growing commercial company but that is, probably like the CEO of Jitterbug's view, one that I actually have no direct experience of. I do know several companies, including large Australian carriers, that have tried and failed in doing that. So, for us, the question became did it make any difference whether your employees were in our North Sydney office, their own homes in Perth, Canberra, the Central Coast of NSW or a different suburb of Sydney? The answer has always been - no - there is no difference in using a 'remote' location - the only difference is whether you hire the right person and have the 'management' processes required for both the company and the 'remote employee' to operate as effectively as if they were in the same location. We currently have personnel in all of those different locations and using VoIP and VPN they have the same facilities as every other person who works for Exetel. Our experiences of hiring graduate engineers in Colombo over what is now almost three years is that Exetel is able to deliver a better service than if we hired only people based on their ability to work from our North Sydney office. We do things very differently from using an "out sourced call centre" and maybe that is why we haven't, to date at least, experienced the problems and issues you see from time to time reported in the Australian media. We currently have ten engineers working in Colombo who handle 100% of all support calls for our ten different services and we will be sending our provisioning manager to Colombo in early January to transfer our provisioning processes. Once that happens we will have one third of our total personnel located in Colombo and plan for that percentage to further increase over 2009 to slightly over 50% as we transfer further aspects of Exetel's back office processes from North Sydney to Colombo. Unlike the situation reported about Dell we have no doubt whatsoever that the Colombo based personnel will deliver an equal level of service to any personnel we have ever hired in Australia at the equivalent length of time with Exetel and we expect that will continue. As for their command of English and 'accents' - personally speaking - I think they are both better than mine. One thing is for certain - we wouldn't be able to deliver as good a level of customer service to our continually growing customer base if we hadn't begun the process three years ago of developing the systems and management skills to operate some aspects of our business outside Australia. In providing the lowest cost services to end users there is no getting round the issue that there are a lot better qualified people in other countries who are more than happy to work for double or treble their 'local' salaries (which are still one third of the salaries expected in Australia) which allow far more services to be provided to Australian users than if Australian salaries had to be paid. Trackbacks
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I recently had to call Vodafone to sort out some issues with an account and was connected through to their call center in Tasmania and spoke with a very Australian sounding guy, I commented at the time as I wasn't aware their call center was based in Australia that it was unusual to hear a familiar sounding voice, he commented that there were two Indian guys that worked in the call center along side him and they copped attitude from customers all day long just because people wrongly assumed they had been transferred to an Indian call center, it's not just the US with the Xenophobes unfortunately
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John, all your comments are true, its just a little depressing for the staff that are going to be replaced, which is why the Australian unemployment rate is going to steadily rise, or the government will create more fluffy jobs through either legislation (look at the banks for an example) or more bureaucracy, or the aussie dollar will keep falling to create parity with these other countries.
The major problem i have is that it stalls efficiency innovation that is normally caused from legislated high wages. For example, voicexml should have been able to provide you the information required from Dell. But its not your fault, its simply a fact of life, in the end it would be good when none of us need to work and are free to do what we want, which is what unemployment and underemployment represents to a degree. I dream of the day, when all workers involved in the shipping of goods, i.e truck drivers, pilots, shipping crew, taxi drivers, bus drivers, train drivers and mining workers can be replaced with HSPA modems, video conferencing and offshore staff, because once that happens, then even more people will be free to do what they want. Comments (6)
In Exetel's case we will not be terminating any staff.
We will offer then different jobs which we see, and we hope that they see, as being more advantageous to their careers. Comments (4)
In a way, you are terminating new staff.
Anyway, it was not meant to be a rant. I'm just pointing out that, there is less incentive now to innovate to reduce human labor. Comments (6)
I don't think that's true at all.
Exetel will continue to employ people in Australia. What we won't do is employ people who say after a few months that they want to "move on" long before they are capable of doing that. I/you don't buy LCD screens made in Australia (there are none) because Australians want too much money to manufacture them. The same applies to many other jobs. Australians want a lot of money to 'turn up for work' and they have to have jobs that reward their employer in the same way. Help desk positions are simply not jobs Australian graduate engineers want. QED: give them to graduate engineers who do want them. Comments (4)
I think you will find, that if LCD tvs required lots of human handling to manufacture, then they would not be made in Korea.
Comments (6)
I'm a salesperson at an electronics retailer and am constantly answering the question "Which TVs are made in Japan?" and "Why are all TVs made in China!?".
The simple answer is - people want the 'Japanese' TV, but they want to pay the 'Chinese' price. You can't have your cake and eat it too! Sure, let's look at the one TV that was made from start to finish in Japan - the Pioneer. What happened to them? That's right, they racked up $160mn in loses because they had to ship TVs below cost just to stay competitive. And we saw what happened too, they've given up producing TVs from themselves and instead licensed their R&D and IP to Panasonic, etc. My point is, the same people who whinge about jobs going overseas are the same people who want every product and commodity for next to nothing. How can this possibly work out? The consumer votes with their wallets, and so in turn the companies do the same, outsourcing parts of their business. Personally I've never had issues with Indian/Malaysian/South American call centres. Some of the best customer experience I've ever received is from 3 mobile who have a 24/7 Indian call centre. Any problems I've had are resolved quickly and professionally. This is achieved because as JL mentions, they have been trained well and are given the right set of tools to work with (so I imagine). However, I have dealt with Optus support, and what a nightmare that was. Nothing to do with their accents or geographical location (India), but rather the fact that they were not equipped to handle anything slightly out of the ordinary. Over the years it has improved, but it does not even compare to 3's service which is miles ahead. And Exetel's support? Well, I'm not sure what it's like. Been a customer for 2 years now and I'm still yet to call support (where as with previous ISPs I'd have the support number memorised). Hopefully I'll never have to find out if it's good or bad Comments (2)
Its called automation.
I think its safe to say making LCD screens is pretty much automated. This way, effort can be spent on R&D instead of slaves. The point I'm making is that, simply substituting expensive labor for cheap labor does nothing to encourage automation. In India, they still harvest tea leaves by hand (according to the Dilmar advert anyway)! Comments (6)
You are right about the automation bit, since most TVs are made by robots these days and not by hand, but you still need to pay supervisors, cleaners, people to do your accounts, etc, which is why they choose China over Japan as labour is far cheaper.
Dilmah, I have no idea what they do, but they are a Ceylon tea, aka Sri Lanka - not Indian Comments (2)
I forgot to add,
It would be cool, to also have a special household lawnmower or vacuum cleaner controlled by HSPA by staff in Colombo (via video conference). Every household will want one!! Comments (6)
What about packet loss? Will the lawnmower simply miss a spot?
Comment (1)
Perhaps some kind of FEC scheme and using SCTP protocol.
anyway, it is a bit like VOIP, ie: the video codec and protocol are designed to handle jitter and packet loss. im sure it could be done with Ekiga, a USB webcam, and a hacked router/HSPA modem running Linux. For an idea, look at this: http://www.swann.com.au/s/products/view/?product=615 . Most of this embedded devices have COM ports and spare USB port (inside the case), so you essentially have a mini computer that you can then stick a USB HSPA modem onto, even better i think the Google G1 android phone has a USB port on it as well. wow its all coming together fast! What you need is a cpu thats fast enough to encode to x.264 codec at a reasonable framerate and resolution, on the lawnmower or vacuum cleaner before its transmitted via the HSPA, thats possibly the part we currently don't have. Comments (6)
Because we here at Chez Girtbysea want to take advantage of exetel's excellent-sounding service offerings, which perfectly match our requirements, (including, importantly, being able to get our pstn phone calls on the same bill,) I've just spent (most) this afternoon with 3 telco call centres, exetel, iprimus and telstra, ( and there could have been a fourth, the isp i want to churn from), and I can report it's been a wildly variable experience.
They've all tried to hard to be helpful, with an intransigent problem, and I suggest the industry is pretty good at that level these days, even with an obviously globalised workforce. The only call centre service quality issue I had was with an exetel call, and it was the actual connection thta was lousy, and i think it must have been bad that end too, because she hung up when i said i was finding it difficult to hear, and when i re-called the service it all sounded fine, What is less satisfactory on the part of the industry is, apparently, a more technicak aspect, which it impacts rather severely on freedom of customer choice, the mark of an immatur industry. the thing is: I can't churn from ispA ( neither iprimus or telstra ) to exetel, regardless of whether i want to take my phone accoount with me. Not unless i pass through a period of having a telstra phone account, which is the absolute last thing i want. You've no doubt figured my problem- apparently my phone is on the iprimus network and so exetel, (or anyone other than iprimus i gather), as an ISP is just not possible, not till i cancel my iprimus phone account$ and deliver it to telstra on the way to exetel, god knows how long later, It's anti competitive i reckon, and I'd like to know why it's necessary. For a start, it's porkies that i can't get a third party isp over the iprimus network: I am now. If they can do it, technically, why not exetel? The answer is, I guess, i was on the isp before the line became iprimus', but that's just another way of saying it's not a technical issue, but a business processes one. IMvHO. RFC. And lets just say I was happy to maintain my relationship with iprimus as a phone provider, (cos you know like numerologically their name is an 8, or some other brainspace reason), why should that be held hostage to the separate issue of who my internet provider is? That feels like anti-competitive collusion. John, if you can do the do and get customer co-operation from a-h's like tesltra, how hard would it be to sweet-talk iprimus about spreading the love, and letting people keep their phone accounts with iPrimus, and their internet services with exetel, cos lets face it iPrimus have no internet service proposition giving anywhere near the customer value that exetel does. That's what I told the Ip rep, and she had to agree when i told her details. I mean, really, having to pass Telstra, collect no service and pay dollars on the way thru sucks, and is gonna take a month, and htat really sucks. C'mon John, how about you sweet-talk iPrimus into getting access to their ports? Yeh, like they'll take one look at exetels proposition compared to theirs and say " what part of death wish do you think we don't understand?". So I understand if even someone with your charms couldn't pull this off, not until iPrimus buys into exetel. What gives here? How come I'm on the internet perfectly well, (except for the package), via supposedly an iPrimus network, on a non-iPrimus service provider and account, who I've been with for over 5 or 6 years, but another non-iPrimus service provider, (ie exetel), can't manage it? I gotta say, putting it on the iPrimus rep to go any where near matching exetels proposition was hopeless, i got all this guff about "these small providers say they can do things but then you find out they can't...and their help desks are hopeless, customers come back to us all the time and tell us so" Yeh, right. Cheers dan Comments (3)
1) We have no female personnel who answer support/sales/any other calls.
2) Companies like Telstra and iPrimus make it as hard as possible for you to move away from them. 3) There's nothing Exetel can do but advise you of the process. Comments (4)
thnx for reply, I think I've worked it out: my current isp was accquired by iPrimus, so that's why we were able to continue uninterupted when the phone line went iP'wards.
I might be confused as to gender of my first contact, but I'm not having a go, just saying it was a bad connection, whether voice QoS is in your orbit i have no idea, you just strike me as being serious about your companies performence, so I reported my experience. I'm voting with my feet. The crazy thing is: iPrimus are going to lose a $70+ pm phone account, because they won't let me get onto exetel, or any one else, for broadband. Silly them. Anyways, I'm looking forward to getting on board, eventually: 21 days minimum before telstra can port. It's not like Iprimus said it would be like this when they quietly took telstra's tail, they should have been required to. 12 billion wiped off telstra shares in 2 days.... it'd be funny if a lot of superannuants livlieloods , thru institutional investments, weren't jeapordised by their arrogance. Sol and McGaughie might be obsecenely remunerated, but not to the extent that they can pay off the damage they've done, more's the pity. Merry Christmas, etc Comments (3)
We have an HSPA temporary solution for people who find thmselves in this situation.
Please email: paulp@exetel.com.au to tell yu how this works. Comments (4)
You could also perhaps port to an Optus Wireless Telephone service, at least temporarily, to keep your number without touching Telstra.
Comment (1)
Thnx folkx for suggestions, exetel looking better all the time, in terms of delivering what we customers need...
I bit the bullet and went out and bought a virgin wireless prepaid (over the cpounter at dick smith) as the family xmas present, (which we can just use a month at time, eg holiday periods, isp changeovers, visiting garnnie weekends, now). Its a Huawei E169, so shold work on the exetel 5 gig/$37.50 plan, when my initial virgin allowence is up. Exetel will have the same OPtus tower coverage right, I want to blog the Woodoford Folk Festival,I checked on the weekend, Virgin/Optus coverage was there. The exetel excess charges are pretty scary, but i presume there will be fair warning/ a meter when allowence limit is coming up. There'll be no teenage download wasteland going in during this period, or much video uploading from the festival, though that would be an ace Exetel Sponsorship opportunity;-) (?privelaged exetel customer content?) Merry Xmas all. Comments (3)
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